I wrote some time ago a comment on Mackan Andersson's post about the Salvation Army and the GLBT issues. My comments have been translated into English by Sven Ljungholm and published as separate comments to Patrick Olterman’s blog series on the same topic at www.fsaof.blogspot.com. Here is my comment:
Mackan subsequently shared a comment relative to my comment. First of all, thank you Mackan for the nature of the tone you use in your comment. I'm don’t feel at all spoiled by being treated respectfully recognizing that my comments are not politically correct.
Here are some brief comments addressed to Mackan. Last time we discussed this issue, you and I, was over an ice cream on a hot summer morning in Almedalsveckan (Christian conference – Almedals Week) quite a few years ago.
We are clearly agreed that a reasonable starting point for biblical interpretation is to read as it is written. I would perhaps say that number two is the question whether the Bible offers up an unambiguous message or if it appears to point in different directions. When the Bible offers up different messages on the same subject one ought to be a bit more careful in maintaining one’s absolute certainty about what the Bible really means. For example, the question of whether a woman ought to speak or not speak in church. Here is the case of a message pointing in different directions. In the New Testament we meet female prophetesses (who are presumably offering up their messages in the church by speaking), while we face restrictions concerning woman's right to speak.
But when it comes to homosexuality, the Bible offers up an unambiguous message in the few passages in which the subject is addressed: Homosexual acts are wrong.
You also mentioned that there are (in fact) so few Bible passages that speak about homosexuality and therefore ‘it’ is incidental (peripheral). Patrik goes even further and shows how many times greed is mentioned and that therefore we ought not worry about homosexuality as it is mentioned (in comparison) so very few times.
If frequency were the cornerstone of our preaching virtually all sermons would be about Jesus' return. There is nothing that is spoken of as much in the New Testament as about Jesus' return. But I rarely hear a sermon preached about Jesus' return. However, I have heard a thing or two about greed from the pulpit. But I do not think I've heard anyone preach against homosexuality.
To my best knowledge there is no lobby group that argues that greed is virtuous. There is no association or fellowship of greedy Christians who want to protect their right to be greedy. If such an organization should be created, you can probably expect a few motions in the debate arguing against the notion that greed is good.
Last and in conclusion Mackan, you sign off your arguments referencing your family where there are different sexual orientations. I have great empathy for the dilemma this creates for you, but biblical interpretation can hardly be steered or directed by whom we know or to who we are related.
With all due respect to you, Mackan, although I strongly dispute your position on the issue.
Peter Baronowsky
Septuagint and the Greek word arsenokoites:
ReplyDeleteLev 18:22 (Septuaginta)
kai meta arsenos ou koimeeteesee koiten gynaikos bdelugma gar estin
Lev 20:13 (Septuaginta)
kai os an koimeetee meta arsenos koiten gynaikos bdelugma epoieesan amphoteroi thanatousthoosan enokhoi eisin
Arsenos means male and koiten means bed. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 teach that a man cannot lie (sexual act) with another man as he lies with a woman. The origin of the word arsenokoites means homosexual activity and homosexual. Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prove very clearly that arsenos koiten means homosexuality sex, because the Jews scribes translated words' arsenos koiten to describe men who have sex with another men (homosexuality), which is a sin and against the will of God. Apostle Paul didn't make up the word arsenokoites, but it was already as the concept in the Old Testament, where it meant homosexuality.
It is very clear that the words' arsenos koiten meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jews of the Old Covenant era. In the same way arsenokoites meant homosexuality (man who had sex with another man) to Jesus' disciples in the New Covenant era.
Jewish philosopher Philo lived in the same time as Jesus Christ and Philo has said that arsenokoites meant shrine prostitute (male temple prostitute), and not homosexual. Some people have made from this a conclusion that the word arsenokoites meant a male temple prostitute. Philo's interpretation was totally wrong, because the Bible proves this undisputedly and shows that Philo erred.
De 23:17 There shall be no whore (gedeshah) of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite (gadesh) of the sons of Israel.
Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie (shakab) with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie (shakab) with mankind, as he lieth (mishkab) with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Female temple prostitute is in Hebrew gedeshah and a male temple prostitute is gadesh. Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 are Hebrew words shakab (lie, lie down and lie sexually) and mishkab (bed, lying down, lying down sexually).
Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 doesn't use temple prostitute word, but words in which is denied that a man can't lie sexually with another man. Always when the Bible speaks for temple prostitutes, so the Bible uses words gedeshah and gadesh. If Lev 18:22 and Lev 20:13 told for temple prostitutes, so verses would mention them, but there isn't, because in those verses, the Bible forbids homosexuality. It is very clear and undisputable in the light of the testimony of the Bible, that arsenokoites means homosexuality.
The text of Septuagint translators disproves totally Philo's false interpretation:
De 23:17 ouk stai porne apo thugateron israel kai ouk estai porneuon apo uion israel ouk estai telesphoros apo thugateron israel kai ouk estai teliskomenos apo uion israel (Septuagint De 23:17)
In the text of Septuagint appear words porne and porneuon, which describe temple prostitutes. Jewish Bible translators' scholars didn't use the word arsenokoites to describe temple prostitute. The testimony of the Bible is unambiguous that arsenokoites doesn't mean temple prostitute, but homosexual.
Philo was pleased Greek, Stoic and Jewish philosophy, and for this reason he believed that literal interpretation of the Jewish Bible is stifled and too complex to be understood in literal human terms. Philo was a liberal theologian of his era, who distorted the teachings of the Bible by his own human wisdom. Philo's testimony from the word arsenokoites is invalid and clearly against the teaching of the Bible.
Arsenokoites meant exactly what Jewish Septuagint translators meant, in other words, it means homosexuality and practicing of homosexuality, which is a sin according to the word of God (Bible).
Reference; http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/homosexual.html